The Future of the Lightning II

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The Future of the Lightning II

Postby smeg1959 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 21:56

This press conference doesn't inspire confidence ...
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Re: The Future of the Lightning II

Postby Josh1971 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:58

Future of the Lightning II seems fine, once you get past all the hysteria on the internet about it. Listening to the people actually flying it, most I've seen say they love it. The most consistent comment I've heard from test pilots is that it is an incredibly EASY airplane to fly. There was a great 3-part series debunking a lot of the criticisms of the aircraft. If I can find the link I'll post it if anyone wants to see it. :D

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Re: The Future of the Lightning II

Postby TonyG2 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 15:44

I have lots of concerns over the F-35 starting with, if I understand it, its the most expensive weapons systems project of all time and they are essentially making it up as it goes along, finding faults and trying to fix them.

Plus the concept of three distinct varients from one basic airframe. I have no real issues with the F-35A and F-35C save for the earlier whacked out notion that the F-35A would stand in as a tankbuster replacement for the A-10. Maybe in terms of missiles/bombs but not the gun! OK so I also accept that it may be considered so 20th century to actually hit a target within visual range but then again when the shotting starts the rules got tossed and the proverbial shit happens.

No my main beef is the F-35B which the UK is supposed to be getting. I have spoken to former RAF Harrier pilots who have no faith in the concept. Yes, its fast. Yes it can be stealthy. But the overly complex VTOL system will be a sod to maintain, limits the on board fuel and weapons and in terms of air combat it can't VIFF. The ability to vector in forward flight was what set the Harrier appart from what would have otherwise been more superior aircraft.

And yes I get it that a competant F-35B pilot should not let himself get caught in a knife fight and should be going for beyond visual range kills. But the "plan" is wlways the first victim of combat.

Plus a fully loaded Harrier could execute its mission and still have weapons left for targets of oportunity which I doubt will be the case for thr F-35B.

I hope it works out. Kind of have to as we have committed ourselves to the concept but I wish our idiot PM had stuck with the F-35C concept and the CATOBAR system on the new carriers rather than the F-35B.
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Re: The Future of the Lightning II

Postby Jonathan » Wed Mar 30, 2016 19:10

TonyG2 wrote:... essentially making it up as it goes along, finding faults and trying to fix them.


The critical path for all modern systems is software. telephones, automobiles, clothes washers, and yes fighter planes.

The F-35 is entirely software driven, and ALL software is riddled through with unknown and undetectable errors. undetectable that is until they are detected in the field by users. Microsoft operating systems are merely the most famous products of this model - put it out there and we'll fix the bugs as they emerge. Imagine paying a billion dollars for something, a life critical mission, be it a front line defense platform or maybe a space ship to frikin Mars, knowing -knowing the vendor knows that it has hundreds or unknowably more unknowable flaws that may or may never emerge in practice, depending on when or how unknowable scenarios arise.

I have discovered bad, (and by that I mean dangerous) software code in VERY expensive and complex power generation control systems. sometimes the OEM is responsive and fixes the problem, other times not ( :shock: )

Enjoy your F-35! Off you got Mars! next week we'll discuss the German banking system! :twisted:
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Re: The Future of the Lightning II

Postby bluedonkey99 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 22:44

Jonathan wrote:
TonyG2 wrote:... essentially making it up as it goes along, finding faults and trying to fix them.


sometimes the OEM is responsive and fixes the problem, other times not ( :shock: )


good luck with finding some "specialized 5th Gen fighter software off the shelf"" - but professional experience would show that software is the cause of many of the world's evil;-)
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Re: The Future of the Lightning II

Postby spejic » Thu Mar 31, 2016 18:28

TonyG2 wrote:I have lots of concerns over the F-35 starting with, if I understand it, its the most expensive weapons systems project of all time and they are essentially making it up as it goes along, finding faults and trying to fix them.

You can't make something complicated and expect it all to work the first time. These things need testing. It certainly isn't made up as they go along - everything is planned to the millimeter. Every configuration test is designed and simulated for ages before tested in real life. That's why it's taking so long. For example, the first arrested landing with full external weapons only happened last month. Software crashed a F-22 and a Gripen during testing, but no F-35's have crashed.
I have no real issues with the F-35A and F-35C save for the earlier whacked out notion that the F-35A would stand in as a tankbuster replacement for the A-10. Maybe in terms of missiles/bombs but not the gun!

They do think about these things. That's why the F-35 has a 25mm gun instead of the 20mm gun that was found to be ineffectual in Afghanistan. It is designed for strafing, with extremely low dispersion.
I have spoken to former RAF Harrier pilots who have no faith in the concept. Yes, its fast. Yes it can be stealthy. But the overly complex VTOL system will be a sod to maintain, limits the on board fuel and weapons and in terms of air combat it can't VIFF.

F-35B pilots gained much more than they lost, and it isn't likely they will be in a gun fight A-4B's in the future. The F-35 has much better acceleration, high-alpha maneuverability, and the AIM-9X so it won't even have to use the first two. It's also extremely easy to fly, so it isn't likely to share the Harrier's horrific accident rate.
Plus a fully loaded Harrier could execute its mission and still have weapons left for targets of oportunity which I doubt will be the case for thr F-35B.

The F-35 has external hardpoints too, and it can carry more than the Harrier. It has far greater range as well, so you don't need to waste hardpoints on fuel tanks.
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Re: The Future of the Lightning II

Postby ph-adk » Tue Apr 05, 2016 17:09

Some nice footage of the RNLAF F-35:

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/6745405 ... iloot.html

The story told by the pilot is that of a mission over Afghanistan and has nothing to do with the F-35. Other than that he now is a F-35 pilot. It does look better every time I see this machine. I hope I get to see it this summer in real life.


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Re: The Future of the Lightning II

Postby Jonathan » Tue May 03, 2016 23:24

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Re: The Future of the Lightning II

Postby smeg1959 » Wed May 04, 2016 1:23

Damned Microsoft Beta releases! :twisted:
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Re: The Future of the Lightning II

Postby Jonathan » Wed May 04, 2016 1:33

I guess not being able to get off the ground is better than falling out of the sky. :x

I stand by my earlier remarks about the deplorable state of software "engineering" .
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